Meeting minutes - Road Safety Framework Local Partnership Forum - East - 7 November 2024
In Attendance
- Michelle Little (ML) (Chair) - Transport Scotland Road Safety Policy
- Caroline Hay (CH) - Road Safety Scotland
- Katrina Caldwell (KC) - Transport Scotland Statistics
- Gary McGregor (GMc) - Falkirk Council
- Ross Drummond (RD) - Police Scotland (Lothians and Scottish Borders)
- Gillian Kelly (GK) - Fife Council
- Michael Grant (MG) - Area Safety Camera Manager
- Marshall Greenshields (MGr) - East Lothian Council
- Gary Haldane (GH) - Scottish Borders Council
- Iain King (IK) - East Lothian Council
- Steven Sellars (SS) - Fife Council
- Stuart Colbron (SC) - West Lothian Council
- Niamh Devlin (ND) - ScORSA
- James Henry (JH) - Police Scotland (Fife)
- Thomas Keay (TK) - Scottish Fire and Rescue Service
- Stuart Cullen (SCu) - Clackmannanshire Council
- Nicola Leeks (NL) - Clackmannanshire Council
- Robert Bain (RB) – Transport Scotland
- Dave Sinclair (DS) – City of Edinburgh Council
- Kosmas Papakyriakou – Police Scotland (Edinburgh)
- Martin McDonnell - Spokes
Secretariat
- Hannah Green (HG) – Transport Scotland Road Safety Policy
Summary from the Governance Meetings
Both the SPB and OPG met recently, the following points were highlighted;
SPB: - The Cabinet Secretary for Transport met with the UK Government counterpart, Lillian Greenwood, Minister for the Future of Roads, on 3 October to discuss a number of reserved matters:
- UK adoption of the EU General Safety Regulations
- delivery of a pilot for Graduated Driving Licence.
- issue of the fitness to drive of older road users
- outcomes of the recent Fatal Accident Inquiry into the death of 3 year old Xander Irvine, that has recommendations on licensing. Cabinet Secretary for Transport has expressed that Scottish Ministers are supportive of more stringent processes for licence renewal whenever a driver reaches the age of 70.
Further discussions will take place on these matters with officials.
OPG: - The Road Traffic Fatality recommendations were considered at the OPG. It was agreed the most suitable place for these recommendations, to be actioned would be at the key priority focus group. Those groups are the motorcycle action group, VRU , Driver Behaviour and Enforcement and Age groups. Feedback will be provided to the PS analyst on the outcomes.
Speed Management Review - The speed management consultation is due to go live in the coming weeks. The consultation will be analysed to consider views on whether changes to the national speed limit policies for roads with a speed limit of 60 mph should be changed.
20 mph Implementation - Funding was approved quite late, beginning of October due to new finance clearances, however 19 local authorities are looking to draw down funding this financial year to progress 20mph speed limits on their road networks.
In addition New guidance, which has been widely consulted on with key partners has went live and will replace all 20mph guidance in Scotland The 20 mph guidance publication
Casualty Statistics for East of Scotland
An overview on the 2030 casualty reduction targets and intermediate outcome targets, including the localised statistics was provided to the group.
The group discussed the unpredictability and the random nature of fatal collisions occurring in their areas and how it makes it difficult to put preventative measures in place.
Edinburgh, Fife, East Lothian and West Lothian all agreed that unpredictability, the random nature and behaviour is a concern when considering preventative measures for collisions. It was also recognised that there are so many similarities between a collision being serious and a fatal. Where the same set of circumstances can lead to two different outcomes. For example a HGV turning left into a junction with a cyclist on its nearside. In one scenario the bike may be crushed by the HGV with the cyclist jumping clear, however this same manoeuvre may have very different outcomes for the cyclist.
Previous initiative in regards to HGV’s have been ran by Cycling Scotland and Glasgow City Council. It was asked if RoSPA had ever carried out similar initiative from a driving for work perspective.
Action - Niamh Devlin (ND) – ScORSA, will provide an update on whether HGV and Cycling awareness has ever been considered by RoSPA as part of driving for work.
The question of causing a collision by human error and deliberate act was discussed as follows . It was agreed that motorcycles and quad bikes being driven on pavements and down main roads as well as people driving at 60mph in a 20mph speed limit are a deliberate acts which may cause a collision. Police Scotland agreed that there has to be an enforcement element, an education and training element. Local authorities should discuss these with Police Scotland.
The Group were asked and agreed that having the collision stats from Police Scotland for the East for the next meeting would allow the group to have a more current picture which would benefit the group.
Action - Police Scotland colleagues to provide collision stats to give a update to the group on their respective areas for the next meeting.
Road Safety Updates
Brainstorming – The group were asked if they were able to improve road safety in their communities and funding was available what would they want to do to make a difference.
Stuart Colbron (SC) - West Lothian Council, suggested defensive driving training courses. He had previously attended a course and felt it was very informative. Undertaking this training can make a difference on the roads and improve driving.
Dave Sinclair (DS) – City of Edinburgh Council, suggested low cost zebra crossings which can be implemented quite quickly , be a low cost and have real benefits. Edinburgh are keen to trial them if possible.
Dave Sinclair (DS) – City of Edinburgh Council, also enquired about direct vision standard and the interaction with HGV’s and pedestrians and if these standards which are currently being used by TFL, can be brought to urban areas.
Marshall Greenshields (MGr) - East Lothian Council, indicated that having a visual deterrent such as a resource for parking attendants. People ignore double yellow lines and make complaints about not being able to cross the road safely in his area. People have requested a controlled crossing however if the cars didn’t park on the yellow lines a crossing would not be required. Having the visual deterrent would prevent this.
Ross Drummond (RD) - Police Scotland (Lothians and Scottish Borders), suggested a change in legislation, noting that it is a reserved matter to the UKG. If the Police stop someone who gives a positive sample for drink or drugs at the roadside they do not have any powers to seize and retain their car, which they can do under similar legislation for no car insurance. Having these powers would act as a good deterrent, people may think a little more about not drink/ drug driving.
It was suggested that the stop and seize police power regulations are first discussed with the NPCC to ensure there is a wider appetite to take this forward.
Kosmas Papakyriakou – Police Scotland (Edinburgh), suggested alcolocks. In the Nordic countries if a person is convicted of a drink driving offence they are forced to pay for and install an alcolock before they are able to drive again.
Secondly, licence restrictions for young drivers which restrict passenger use and hours of use of the vehicle.
In addition, a young drivers event which takes place over 4 days at the O2 academy in Edinburgh has seen nearly 5000 S6 school pupils attend. Would like this course to be on the curriculum and every area should run this in Scotland.
Action - Kosmas Papakyriakou – Police Scotland (Edinburgh), for those local authorities who are interested in running this event in their own areas, it was suggested that an invite to the young driver event be circulated to them.
Stuart Colbron (SC) - West Lothian Council, suggested that speed limiters should be made compulsory in vehicles, however it was noted this suggestion may be longer term as it is reserved to the UKG.
Marshall Greenshields (MGr) - East Lothian Council advised that there used to be a young driver event with east Lothian and Midlothian, however they no longer have a venue and struggle to get a replacement. They currently run online events but do not feel it is very engaging for the pupils. East Lothian would be interested in collaborating with Police Scotland /Edinburgh with the possibility of gaining funding to put on coaches.
Gillian Kelly (GK) - Fife Council, advised that Fife provided resources to the young driver event in Edinburgh but has not yet had the opportunity to attend. Would like to run the event in Fife but the transportation costs were high previously. If funding could be established this could make the event possible.
Action - Michelle Little (ML) (Chair): Transport Scotland Road Safety Policy, to provide an update on direct vision standard for HGV’s.
Road Safety Scotland Education and Activity
Caroline Hay (CH) - Road Safety Scotland, provided an update on Road Safety Scotland’s key priorities for the next six months.
It was requested that all local authorities provide their education contacts to ensure they are notified of the free resources available for schools from RSS. In addition a plea was made for testers to test the new resource. Contact details and more information will be provided.
Action - Caroline Hay (CH) - Road Safety Scotland, to circulate more information in regards to the resource to be tested and her contact details.
Any other business and Next Meeting
No AOB was given
List of Actions:
- Action - Niamh Devlin (ND) – ScORSA, will provide an update on whether HGV and Cycling awareness has ever been considered by RoSPA as part of driving for work. Road Safety Framework Local Partnership Forum – 20 June 2024 – Note of Meeting
- Action - Police Scotland colleagues to provide collision stats to give a update to the group on their respective areas for the next meeting.
- Action - Kosmas Papakyriakou – Police Scotland (Edinburgh), for those local authorities who are interested in running this event in their own areas, it was suggested that an invite to the young driver event be circulated to them.
- Action - Michelle Little (ML) (Chair): Transport Scotland Road Safety Policy, to provide an update on direct vision standard for HGV’s.
- Action - Michelle Little (ML) (Chair): Transport Scotland Road Safety Policy Investigate the current TS position on the non-prescribed
- Action - Caroline Hay (CH) - Road Safety Scotland, to circulate more information in regards to the resource to be tested and her contact details.